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david19m

Provoke Coronavirus to show symptoms if infected

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david19m

One problem that Covid-19 is that it seems that many people doesn't show any symptoms, nevertheless they still build up phlegm or mucus in the lungs, that causes shortness of breath. 

In December, I got infected by a flu virus, I have no idea which one. In the nights I had terrible cough of phlegm, in the day nothing. I came to the conclusion that eating chocolate (I received several in Christmas), provoked the phlegm. I tought I developed some kind of allergy to chocolate (I was skeptical of that idea, but it fitted). After I was free of the virus, I think it was a virus, not a bacteria, because in January I'm sure I had post-viral fatigue, I ate chocolate to test the idea of the allergy, but it caused nothing. 

Clif High explained about the Cytokine Storm, that might be one of the factors that makes people ill when contracting Coronavirus, I found that some foods are able to worsen a Cytokine Storm: Sambucol, Spirulina, Chlorella algae, Honey, Kimchi and, yes, Chocolate:
http://learnandlivewell.blogspot.com/2010/01/dealing-with-cytokine-storm.html

 

In the day, the build up phlegm didn't even bothered me, but when I ate the chocolate, it made me expel a lot of phlegm in a short period of time. 

So I ask for your opinion, could those food might be used in some phase of the disease in order to clean the lungs?
More so, for healthy adults to monitor or induce initial symptoms, that normally would take 15-20 days in healthy individuals.

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bzpal
18 minutes ago, gigi said:

Yep: I stopped my dark chocolate fetish when that was posted here. Killing me but I am coping:-) 

As I understood it, it is only during a 'cytokine storm' immune response when you should stop those foods which ordinarily boost immunity. Otherwise, eat as much as you can to build up a good immune system.

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david19m
5 hours ago, bzpal said:

Here is some info about why congestion mostly happens at night:

 

Why Congestion May Get Worse at Night

https://www.verywellhealth.com/why-do-i-get-congested-at-night-1192188

 

Yes, at first I also tought it was gerd, because the first night I had it after sleep, but the other nights was way before laying down. That's why I suspect I had a flu virus, and the phlegm over acumulation and expell was due the chocolate I consumed at night.

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david19m
4 hours ago, bzpal said:

As I understood it, it is only during a 'cytokine storm' immune response when you should stop those foods which ordinarily boost immunity. Otherwise, eat as much as you can to build up a good immune system.

 

That's why I think that maybe consuming those products, chocolate, honey, etc.. that are cheap and easily available, at the same time, everyday, might be a way to know if you've been infected with the coronavirus, or maybe any other flu/influenza virus. In normal times it would help to boost your inmune system, but in infection, it would accelerate the symptoms.

 

What I don't know is how dangerous it would be. I think it helped me to expell build up phlegm that I was unaware off, Anybody know some data about the evolution of patients that show symptoms late? 

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Greenmeadow

Take a look at this article again on the cytokine storm. It seems to say that some diseases are immune to  our cytokines which are part of our immune system. So you don't want to overproduce cytokines when faced with those diseases. Then the cytokines overwhelm us and can't effect the disease.  See the article for the list of supplements that support health or create risk of cytokine storm. This one is worth printing out.

Dr. Carol’s Holistic Natural Remedy’s Fight Swine Flu Naturally!

https://www.chagrinfallspetclinic.com/2009/04/29/dr-carols-holistic-natural-remedys-fight-swine-flu-naturally/

 

Quote

This is because of the fact that the Swine Flu virus itself is immune to two different “cytokines” that the body of people and pets naturally produce. Specifically the two cytokines are referred to asTNF-a and IL-6.

 

Cytokines are compounds naturally produced by the immune system of people and pets that attack and remove foreign bodies, which generally protect us from disease and infection. The problem is that when a foreign particle is immune to a certain cytokine, your body thinks that its immune response is not working properly and therefore tries even harder to remove the foreign particle. This response often leads to what is termed a “cytokine storm.” A Cytokine Storm occurs when the body becomes overwhelmed with these compounds, which ultimately overwhelm the body and lead to complete destruction of the person or pet, with a fatal outcome. Nutrients including Echinacea and Spirulina actually stimulate the production of these cytokines. Avoid these foods if you suspect you may have contracted this virus . Many young lives were lost in part due to cytokine storms causing over-reactive immune systems during the former “Spanish Flu” pandemic that occurred 40 years ago. Consuming foods that suppress the production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6 and enhance the production of those that are effective against the virus helps infected individuals recover naturally.

 

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It is also a good idea to avoid eating foods, like dairy products and bananas that naturally stimulate mucous production in your airways and respiratory system. Mucous production which in most cases acts to protect us is detrimental to anyone infected with Swine Flu because mucous is the Swine Flu virus’s favorite place to breed and multiply. Over production of mucous makes breathing even more difficult for Flu patients and ads to their discomfort, suffering and demise.

 

Helpful

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Natural Foods and Herbal Remedies Helpful to Treat and Prevent the Flu 

Certain alternative remedies can act as natural, effective anti-virals. They boost your immune system, decrease the production of toxic cytokines TNF-a and IL-6 and help not only to treat but also to prevent the flu.

  • Garlic (allicin): Garlic is a very effective antiviral. It is most effective in its raw form and needs to be crushed. It must be consumed within 1 hour of crushing. The initial dose is 2 to 3 cloves daily, and this is gradually decreased until no body odor occurs. There are no toxic effects in people. Pets including dogs and cats should not use this as garlic fed continually leads to a decrease in red blood cell production which results in anemia.
  • Vitamin C: Vitamin C boosts the immune system and acts as antiviral by blocking the enzyme neuraminadase. Viruses need neuraminadase to reproduce. There are anecdotal stories of people that took large amounts of Vitamin C and lived through the Spanish Flu pandemic. Vitamin C may also be effective by reducing the body’s natural production of two cytokines, TNF-a and IL-6. Another study also validated the effectiveness of taking Vitamin C when flu is suspected. In this report, a group of 470 people took 1000 milligrams of Vitamin C every hour for six hours in a row, and then took 1000 milligrams of Vitamin C 3 times a day. They experienced an 85% decrease in flu symptoms.
  • Green Tea may be used as an alternative to the current anti-viral medications, Tamiflu and Relenza. Green tea catechins act as effective antivirals. They decrease the production of the cytokine TNF-a, inhibit neuraminidase and may have antiviral activity equivalent to other antivirals including Tamiflu.
  • St. John’s Wort (Hypericum): St. John’s Wort is an effective antiviral. Hypericum, the active ingredient in St. John’s Wart decreases the production cytokine IL-6. There have also been some promising results with this substance in research trials conducted in commercial flocks of birds infected with the H5N1 strain of the Bird Flu virus conducted in Vietnam.
  • Vitamin E: Vitamin E boosts the immune system and decreases the production of cytokine TNF-a.) Studies were conducted in mice and indicate that Vitamin E is very beneficial for people and pets with compromised immune systems, especially in older individuals. The beneficial effects of Vitamin E are enhanced further when it is taken along with Vitamin C.
  • Apple Juice: Apple juice demonstrates anti-viral properties. Fresh apple juice along with the pulp and skin offers more antiviral protection than heated commercially available apple juice. More research is needed and its effectiveness toward H5N1 is unknown.
  • Resveratrol: Resvertrol has antiviral properties. In addition to inhibiting neuraminidase, Resveratrol also helps to block virus production in the body. Products that contain Resveratrol include red wine, peanuts, mulberries, Japanese Knotwood Root (richest source), raisins and red grapes. Resveratrol supplements are available commercially and are more stable than wine. Liquid forms allow immediate absorption orally. There are no reported toxic side effects in people.
  • Scutellaria (Skullcap): Skullcap is an herb used to make tea and has antiviral properties. It has no adverse side effects in people and also acts as a mild tranquilizer. Research suggests that Skullcap may act by inhibiting the enzyme neuraminidase, which is a needed for the H5N1 strain of the Bird Flu virus to reproduce.
  • Cranberry Juice: Studies indicate that cranberry juice shows anti-viral activity. Cranberry juice may act by reducing the virus’s ability to invade the body and/or multiply. Its specific effect against the H5N1strain of Bird Flu is unknown.
  • Cat’s Claw (Uncaria tomentosa😞 Cat’s Claw decreases the production of the cytokine TNF-a. It also boosts the immune system. In one study, in which water bark was used, there was an increase in the number of white blood cells, but no toxicity was noted. [Link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] The leaves, bark, vine, and roots contain the active ingredient which is Uncaria tomentosa. Children and pregnant women should not ingest Cats Claw because it may have a harmful genetic effect, adversely affecting the DNA, in the developing cells of young children and unborn babies. Since this is also a source of aspirin, pets including dogs and cats should not be given Cats Claw. In cats, aspirin cannot be metabolized or broken down and therefore is toxic and may be fatal. In dogs, aspirin can lead to bleeding ulcers of the stomach and intestines.
  • Curcumin (Tumeric): Tumeric is the active ingredient in Curcumin. Curcumin is the yellow colored spice used to make curry. Tumeric decreases the production of the cytokine TNF-a. Research indicates that this may help to prevent cytokine storms. Tumeric should be taken with food in order to prevent irritation of the lining of the stomach, called gastritis and/or the development of ulcers in the stomach which are referred to as peptic ulcers. Pregnant and nursing mothers should not take Tumeric. Since curcumin is metabolized very quickly by the liver, it is best to take this along with a substance called “Piperine”, which is found in black pepper. Various health food stores carry Tumeric, already combined with Piperine. The product is available commercially in tablets, liquids and capsules already combined with Piperine. Human dosage is 500mg to 4000mg a day.
  • Astragalus root (Astragali Radix😞 Astragalus root boosts the immune system.
  • Tea Tree Steam Inhalation: This reduces the cytokine TNF-a and has been said to help relieve congestion and combat infection.
  • Recipe for Tea Tree Steam Inhalation: add 2 drops of tea tree oil to a bowl of steaming water. Cover your head with a towel and inhale for 5 to 10 minutes. Dogs may also safely enjoy the benefits this offers. For canines: place the steaming bowl in your shower or bathroom and enjoy the vapors, along with your dog for 5-10 minutes together. Tea Tree substances including tea tree oil can be toxic to cats and therefore should not be used.

 

To avoid

Quote

Natural Remedies and Herbs to Avoid during the Flu Pandemic

 

Elderberry Juice (Sambucal): Elderberry juice increases production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6. This substance is very effective against the common flu but may not be desirable for the H5N1 Bird Flu virus. It increases the production of toxic cytokines which could trigger a fatal cytokine storm.

Micro Algae: Chlorella and Spirulina: Both of these micro-algae act to increase the body’s natural production of the toxic cytokine TNF-a.

Honey: Honey increases production of toxic cytokines TNF-a and IL-6.

Chocolate: Chocolate increases production of both toxic cytokines TNF-a and IL-6. Chocolate contains Theobromide which is toxic to dogs and cats.

Echinacea: Echinacea increases production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6. Although this is often beneficial to boost immunity with the common cold and certain strains of flu, research indicates that Echinacea should not be taken during this Flu pandemic because it may increase the risk of cytokine storms.

Kimchi: Kimchi increases production of both toxic cytokines TNF-a and IL-6 and therefore should not be taken.

Dairy Products and Bananas: Both dairy products and bananas naturally increase mucous production in the airways and respiratory system and as a result should not be taken.

 

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bzpal

Good to know about bananas causing mucous... first time I've ever heard that!  I'm just about to go chop down a huge bunch that is beginning to ripen, and will pay more attention to how they affect me. I wonder if squeezing lime juice on them (how I usually eat them) will mitigate it....  have to experiment.

 

Sooooooo... looks like eat everything in the last category up until you feel sick, then stop. In fact, isn't fasting one of the best things to do if you feel sick? Hydration is important, but food just puts more stress on the whole system.

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david19m
4 hours ago, Greenmeadow said:

So you don't want to overproduce cytokines when faced with those diseases.

 

Yes, that's what I see. The problem with the Covid-19, it seems, is that a lot of people don't show any symptoms until 15-20 days, many of them fall ill in the streets, Clif High told that it might be low blood pressure caused by the Coronavirus, I think that prostaglandins, that act with cytokines, are the ones that cause many of those fades. 
Others might be because the acumulation of phlegm in the lungs causes shortness of breath. 


Many of the cases are developing neumonia, but that neumonia might be produced mainly by the phlegm in the lungs, not the coronavirus itself. 

I don't see any information related to phlegm expell in the patients, I see that most of them have dry cough. 

My point is, could those foods to avoid during a cytokine storm, wouldn't them be a cheap way to monitor our health, mainly because healthy adults don't show any symptom in 15-20 days, a way to force the disease to manifest symptoms. Or it could be too dangerous?

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bzpal

We ALL have all kinds of 'diseases' in our systems which never need to emerge if our immune systems are healthy. It doesn't make sense to try to force an illness to manifest if we are healthy enough to contain or keep it in remission. There is NO positive result in trying to make it more REAL.  Are you nutz? :wakeup:

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Greenmeadow

Clif said in one of his videos to start measuring your blood pressure and temp. He said those may change before you feel anything so you should know your normal vital signs.

 

Going into the disease a raised blood pressure may be one of the only symptoms. Stress can also raise your blood pressure. Get a wrist cuff and test lowering your blood pressure with breathing and relaxation. you should be able to do it if it is just stress. If your blood pressure is high and you have been exposed but have no other symptoms slam the Vit C , Vit D and B6.

 

The first member of the cytokine storm family to be recognized by physicians was sepsis. The appreciation that the consequences of sepsis are a result not of the pathogen, but rather the immune response to the pathogen. One of the symptoms of sepsis is lowered blood pressure that cannot be raised with IV fluids. I would use blood pressure dropping as a sign to stop anything immune support like elderberry and go heavy on the Vit B6 and antivirals like Vit C.

 

Basic symptoms of the cytokine storm are inflammatory : high fever, swelling and redness, extreme fatigue and nausea

The ""swelling and redness" can be a whole limb swollen and turning red and purple and painful.

 

 

 

 

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david19m
1 hour ago, bzpal said:

We ALL have all kinds of 'diseases' in our systems which never need to emerge if our immune systems are healthy. It doesn't make sense to try to force an illness to manifest if we are healthy enough to contain or keep it in remission. There is NO positive result in trying to make it more REAL.  Are you nutz? :wakeup:

 

That sounds reasonable. I'm not refering about consuming those products when you know you have Covid-19. It's clear that you should avoid fully those foods. 
My concern is due the fact that in many individuals, symptoms begin to emerge after 15-20 days, in that period, you would be infecting others without knowing, and you would have a 15-20 day period in which you wouldn't be able to take remedies, avoid certain type of foods, increase the intake of others, because you simple wouldn't know if you have the virus. So that's why I thought that the foods that you would've to avoid during a cytokine storm, common food that most people consume regularly like chocolate, honey, dairy, bananas, could be used as way to monitor if you suddenly develop symptoms after consuming those common products. 

So, if Covid-19 begins to spread in X or Y city, would it be better to cut preventively that kind of products to avoid the worsening of symptoms if infected?

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Odinson

Maybe greetings will become a series of casual tests people give to each other to aggravate the virus to get it to show?  Like a drunk roadside test?

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david19m
1 hour ago, Greenmeadow said:

Clif said in one of his videos to start measuring your blood pressure and temp. He said those may change before you feel anything so you should know your normal vital signs.

 

Going into the disease a raised blood pressure may be one of the only symptoms. Stress can also raise your blood pressure. Get a wrist cuff and test lowering your blood pressure with breathing and relaxation. you should be able to do it if it is just stress. If your blood pressure is high and you have been exposed but have no other symptoms slam the Vit C , Vit D and B6.

 

The first member of the cytokine storm family to be recognized by physicians was sepsis. The appreciation that the consequences of sepsis are a result not of the pathogen, but rather the immune response to the pathogen. One of the symptoms of sepsis is lowered blood pressure that cannot be raised with IV fluids. I would use blood pressure dropping as a sign to stop anything immune support like elderberry and go heavy on the Vit B6 and antivirals like Vit C.

 

Basic symptoms of the cytokine storm are inflammatory : high fever, swelling and redness, extreme fatigue and nausea

The ""swelling and redness" can be a whole limb swollen and turning red and purple and painful.

 

Thank you, I forgot about the blood pressure. 

Sorry if I was too imprecise, I didn't meant to say to consume those products after you know that you've contracted the virus, but maybe as a way to detect changes in your body when consuming them. Would it be advisable to preemptively stop the consumption of those products in the event of growing infection rates in my city?

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Greenmeadow
14 minutes ago, david19m said:

 

Thank you, I forgot about the blood pressure. 

Sorry if I was too imprecise, I didn't meant to say to consume those products after you know that you've contracted the virus, but maybe as a way to detect changes in your body when consuming them. Would it be advisable to preemptively stop the consumption of those products in the event of growing infection rates in my city?

 

That's an interesting question.  Hopefully by the time it is in our areas we will have more info on how this disease progresses. It makes sense to be preemptive with our health though. The main things clif suggested are fine even with cytokine storms Vit C, Vit D, Vit B6, Chaga mushroom

 

So far it sounds like the cytokine storm "might" be a factor.  We don't really know how transmissible it is or how deadly.  We might just come down with a cold and it won't be too rough. That may depend upon our diet and immune system. Countries with a lot of malnutrition are likely to far worse. 

 

I know I have gone to work with a runny nose before. But if this comes around that runny nose may be ok for you and deadly for someone else. So I would want to pay more attention to my symptoms. For myself i am very reactive to dairy and wheat. I will have some congestion if I have eaten them in the last 3 days so I probably need to stop them  entirely just so I will notice congestion from disease and not allergies.

 

You are on the public page by the way.  Private message Foxx and ask to get on the private forum where we have been having more in depth discussions.

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